The latest episode of the AZ Big Podcast with Michael & Amy has officially dropped. Episode 95 features David Villadolid, shareholder at Burch & Cracchiolo.
LISTEN TO THE PODCAST: https://open.spotify.com/episode/5B8d6HzKRYOKcFKKXMrCGt?si=55b4b8c193514d7d
Listen to more of the AZ Big Podcast here.
Podcast Transcript:
Michael Gossie
Welcome to the AZ Big Podcast sponsored by Burch & Cracchiolo. I'm Michael Gossie, editor-in-chief at AZ Big Media, and I'm joined by my co-host, our publisher, Amy Lindsey. Today, we're very excited to be joined in the studio by David Villadolid, senior partner at Burch & Cracchiolo. David, thank you so much for being here today.
David Villadolid
Thanks for having me.
Amy Lindsey
David, start by telling us a little bit about your background in law practice.
David Villadolid
So, I've been practicing employment law for the past 20 years. My background is that I'm originally from New York, born and raised there, educated back East – New York City, moved out here in 1987.
So, I've seen a lot of changes in Arizona and I was working in-house for a heavy machinery dealer in Arizona in the 90's, and that's when employment law started to develop. That's when I started my practice.
Michael Gossie
So, employment law. You've gotta be really busy lately with everything going on.
Amy Lindsey
Few changes in the last couple of years.
David Villadolid
Yes, yes, yes, and I always stay late on Friday because for some reason people call me and it's an emergency that's probably been brewing since Tuesday.
Michael Gossie
So, David, let's... let's start by talking a little bit about the impact that COVID has had on... on the workplace.
Amy Lindsey
Small little debate going on lately.
Michael Gossie
Yeah, little debate going on regarding, you know, people being in office versus remote. What are some of the considerations that employers need to look into when they're weighing their options on whether to let their people stay home, come into the office, or kind of a hybrid of both?
David Villadolid
Oh, that's such a big topic. I think, you know, COVID really hit everybody hard in Arizona. I think the whole idea of working remote is great for many employees, but I think that it also affects the culture and the ability of employers to retain talent.
I think you know, there have been many attempts by employers to try to get everybody back in the office, I know there's a tech company in California that sent out an e-mail to all of its employees back in October saying, You have to be in the office. We've decided this and if you don't want to do this, attached is a document that will let you know how you can resign.
So, that's a very dramatic way to do it. I think the better way to do it is try to get your employees to want to come into the office and that's obviously difficult to do but I think that the more that people can get in the office, I think you have the opportunity to retain talent.
I think you have an opportunity to develop a culture. I think that's very important for both the company and for the employee and one of the issues that we've been also addressing with COVID is mindfulness and quality of life issues and stress on employees and stress on individuals and how do you have loyalty and how do you take care of people if they're always at home just staring at the screen?
Michael Gossie
How do you define mindfulness when you're dealing with employment law?
David Villadolid
Well, I think you know a lot of it is stress. I think a lot of it is taking care of the employee, being able to watch them, being able to mentor them. I think that is easier in an in-office environment. I think you can also do that remotely, but I think it requires more effort on both sides.
You know, I think that... I think that one of the things that we try to do with all of our employees is reach out to them, make sure that they're engaged. If we see any kind of, you know, hint that they're stressed or whatever, make sure that we talk to them.
Michael Gossie
You know, so I was an economics major, so I need to be able to quantify everything. So, but as an employer, how can you, how do you... how can you monitor that? How can you quantify that? How can you administer something that you can't really measure?
David Villadolid
I think it just takes...
Michael Gossie
I know that's a complex question.
David Villadolid
Yeah, it is a…
Michael Gossie
We're getting into a little philosophy here.
David Villadolid
Yeah, I think it's a complex question, but I think that goes back to the heart of employment and the heart of the engagement. I think that if.. you have to be able to quantify it, you have to be able to… be able to engage with your employees. Otherwise, there's... one of the things that I'm worried about is that if somebody is... their only connection with their employer with work is through a screen, through videos, through the Zoom's.
How much loyalty? How much connection is there? What's to stop them from really switching to another connection to another screen, to another group of employers? If it's just the work, if it's just the task that's involved. If there's no collect.. connection or sense of belonging to the group, I think that only creates a disconnect for the work and maybe quality of work but what does that do for the person who's on the other end of the screen, just in their office.
Michael Gossie
Right, right.
Amy Lindsey
So, another big conversation that's come up has been the diversity, equity and inclusion in today's workplace. It's becoming a real conversation with companies. How is Arizona doing when it comes to improving the DEI in the workplace?
David Villadolid
I think Arizona is becoming much better. I mean, I said I moved here in 1987, I've seen a lot of changes here I think that... we still need to improve in diversity, but you work with what you have. I remember when I was working with the hard, heavy metal machinery dealer, there was one female welder who was... kept on being hired by all of the different companies. She would just go from place to place, she would make more money because she was, you know, she was... they wanted to hire her to prove that they had diversity.
I think here in Arizona it's improving. You have a lot of different people who are moving here. The economics are good. I think economically and also culturally, Arizona is really, really developed. I also think that you can push forward by not only looking for stereotypes of, you know, national origin or race or whatever, but really looking for diversity of ideas. I think that also can create a different environment and you also look in different places. You don't always go to the same places. Maybe you hire from different groups. You look out of state, there's a lot of ways to attack that.
Michael Gossie
David, what do you think DEI is so difficult for some companies to either implement initiatives or sustain initiatives? Why do you think they have such a hard time with that?
David Villadolid
I think it's a lot of it is whether or not you just think you're going to check the box, or if you're really commit to it. I think that you know, you can try to attempt DEI by saying that you know you are looking for diversity in your workplace for an African American, an Asian or Hispanic, something like that.
But I think you have to commit to, actually like I said, looking for diversity in ideas. I think if that's scary to a company, if the company leadership only wants to continue in the same way and that likes people who are "Yes Men". Doesn't appreciate challenges or different thinking. They're gonna have a harder time really committing to that kind of diversity.
Michael Gossie
David, we have a million questions for you, but before we get to them, I have to say, you want to make a difference in your business and life in 2023, contact an attorney at Burch & Cracchiolo to handle all your legal needs. Burch & Cracchiolo is a time honored, full service law firm who can partner with you no matter what your challenges, goals, or new horizons on your radar. Contact them today at bcattorneys.com. That's bcattorneys.com.
So, what are some of the big employment law issues that we're facing in... in Arizona today in 2023?
David Villadolid
I think there's still a little bit of discrimination, but I think in Arizona there's always wage issues. I think, you know, people are… you know, people have an idea about how they can terminate somebody. Arizona's an at-will state. So, in Arizona, you can terminate somebody for any reason, for no reason, with or without notice, with or without cause but that doesn't mean that you can... you know, anybody terminates somebody for no reason that really never happens.
Nobody goes down the hallway and says, well, I feel like firing somebody and it'll be you. It's only happened in one instance that I know of, but a... but in... so you have to be able to communicate. I think that as I said before, I get panic calls on Friday and usually it's an employment situation where somebody's... you know, there's been a problem in the workplace and whenever that happens, it sucks the energy out of... you have to address it, you have to address it right away and so if I listen to the person, if I listen to what their issue is, I always ask for documentation.
If it doesn't exist in the document, then it really doesn't exist. You want to make sure that everything is written down and a lot of times I'll ask them to review that and I'll say I understand what's going on. You can terminate this person or you can discipline them but not right away. You need to be able to document it. You need to put some things in place. You maybe need to warn them or have a conversation with them, a lot of times there's no conversation, there's just frustration, and that builds up and I say, well, have you talked to them about this? Have you actually tried to address this and the answer no, is I'm just fed up. So, you need to do that and those kinds of conversations with employees are never easy, but they need to be.
Michael Gossie
David, how important is it for a company to have an employee handbook?
David Villadolid
Oh, it's essential. It's very simple, but it is essential if, God forbid, there's ever a charge. an EOC charge alleging any kind of discrimination. That's the first thing they're going to ask for, and it's important to have equal opportunity policies. Non harassment, non discrimination policies in writing there so that you can show the EOC and your employees that these things are important and that they make a difference to the company and also the company believes in them and it's part of their culture.
Michael Gossie
You know, you mentioned earlier like you know some companies kind of get into that just check the box mentality and on those opportunities when the employee handbook becomes that. How often should companies look at updating that, or modifying their employee handbooks?
David Villadolid
Best cases at least every year, I think every other year, but certainly when there changes in the statutes, I think awareness of you know what's going on in... You know, with smoking, with hazards, with driving, with medical marijuana, which turned into recreational marijuana and then how do you do... do you do drug tests? How do you do that if there's an incident or accident in the workplace, you know the whole marijuana question and substance abuse. That's becoming a bigger issue and that's also ties into the whole stress thing too, where people self medicate and how do you know that if somebody's not in the office?
Michael Gossie
Right.
Amy Lindsey
I find the employee handbooks can protect the employer and the employee. They start on an even playing field, if you will.
David Villadolid
Right, right.
Michael Gossie
There's just so many... There's so many issues out there. How how can business leaders who are just trying to run their business, how can they sort these all out? How important is it to have somebody like you on… on retainer to kind of be able to bounce these ideas off of and make sure that they're maintaining a good workplace culture and a good DEI program?
David Villadolid
I think you know, I try to help. I try to support from below. I always tell my clients that if you know if you have a question – 5 minutes, 2 minutes, I can answer it quickly. A lot of times, in fact, most of the time I'll tell my clients, look, I will try to help you but I don't want the other side to know that an attorney is involved because we don't want them to lawyer up, so I can help you and if they ever, they never know that I was involved, then I've done my job. I can help you from behind. I can help you with documentation. Sometimes I write scripts for people or I tell them what to do or what steps to take and with a chronology.
Michael Gossie
That's Great!
David Villadolid
But those kinds of things to remove a stressful situation because, like I said before, if you've got an employment problem, it you can't really focus on anything else.
Amy Lindsey
Right.
David Villadolid
You're not focusing on your business, you're looking at this employee and trying to figure out how to fix it or get rid of it and you want to make sure that it doesn't come and have repercussions.
Michael Gossie
How helpful was it to you professionally that you had kind of that in-house background that you were able to bring to your broader range of clients here.
David Villadolid
Well, I think.. I think it was amazing I.. but before I went to work in-house, I would only see clients' problems. So, I had the perspective that well, clients know what they're doing. I do a better job and then once I got inside the business.
Amy Lindsey
Right.
David Villadolid
...and worked in a company that had 1,500 employees, 1,000 employees. You see that what legal problems and legal issues are just like a little speed bump, that they're trying to do the right thing. They're trying to move forward the business. They're really trying to succeed and when there's a legal issue, you know, they're trying to resolve it, but they don't really understand it. So, that's when I really tried to develop that whole idea of working from underneath and supporting. One of my mentors there, who was the CFO of the company, he always said I don't have an MBA, I have an MBWA. Which means management by walking around.
Amy Lindsey
I've never heard that.
David Villadolid
...and so, but that's... that's how I learned the most about the company and by people, when I got out of my office, I talked to people and maybe they didn't want to say anything, but they would see me in the hallway and they say, hey, Dave, you know I have this thing that's been on my mind. Do you mind.. come into my office a second and that's when you really learned the most about how to help people and again maybe create... make problems go away before they even arise.
Amy Lindsey
Yeah, I think that's sometimes the best answers, not have it elevate to that need.
Michael Gossie
Yeah. So, that gives me to our last question, if you had to give people... business leaders one piece of advice to kind of prevent those things from elevating, what's the best piece of advice you can give them in 2023 to kind of prevent these employment issues from arising?
David Villadolid
I would say address it right away. Talk to the employee, address it right away. Call an attorney. You can call me or another attorney. Look at your handbook, but don't ignore it. I think that when you would ignore these kinds of problems, they'll get worse, they'll fester or they'll increase frustration not only among the management but among the employee.
Amy Lindsey
So, David, how can people get in touch with you if they have further questions?
David Villadolid
You can e-mail. You can... my phone number is 602-234-9943, e-mail directly, contact the office. I'm not the only attorney at Burch & Cracchiolo that works on employment law. Susie Ingold is there, we have other attorneys that do this and we're always available to help.
Amy Lindsey
That's fantastic. Thank you!
Michael Gossie
And your partner there, Susie Angle holds the distinction of being the most listened to AZ Big Podcast so far because she came in here and talked about the puppy mill case and that really sparked an interest with our... with our listeners. So, they know… they know her well. So, well David, thank you so much for being here. Thank you. Thank you for listening to the AZ Big Podcast with Michael and Amy for the latest and greatest business, real estate and lifestyle news, check out the all new azbigmedia.com and once again, thank you to our sponsors Burch & Cracchiolo and thank you to David Villadolid, from Burch & Cracchiolo. Thank you.
Amy Lindsey
Thank you, David.
David Villadolid
Thanks very much.