The latest episode of the AZ Big Podcast with Michael & Amy has officially dropped. Episode 170 features shareholder Susan Dana-Kobey, who talks changing trends in family law.
Listen to more of the AZ Big Podcast here.
Transcript:
Michael Gossie
Welcome to the AZ Big Podcast sponsored by Burch & Cracchiolo. I'm Michael Gossie, editor-in-chief at AZ Big Media, and I'm joined by my co-host, our publisher, Amy Lindsey. Amy, we have one of our former most influential women on the podcast today.Amy Lindsey
I always love to have them in here.Michael Gossie
Right? One of the most amazing family law attorneys in Arizona, Susan Dana-Kobe from Burch & Cracchiolo. Susan, great to see you again.Susan Dana-Kobey
Good morning. Thank you. Thanks for having me.Amy Lindsey
Thank you for joining us. All right, Susan, what are some of the changes in 2024 and 2025 coming for family law practitioners that may affect the way we handle divorce and custody cases?Susan Dana-Kobey
Great question. Well, family law in itself is always evolving and it's a very fast, hot practice. And the courts and the judges, the committees, the administration, and the court system are doing a fantastic job keeping up with changes in the law and making it more efficient for litigants to go to court and move their cases quickly.We're seeing a lot of pilot programs and different types of formats and changes in the way that we process things implemented to move them quickly. For example, up until recently, it would take 60 days to get an order signed or executed or get a decree done. That recently changed to 21 days.
Amy Lindsey
Oh, that's a drastic shift.Susan Dana-Kobey
Yeah, that's huge because a lot of times, you know, the courts are busy. We have more people in Arizona, more cases coming in, and the courts get backed up.And I think they're doing a fantastic job in moving things forward. And that's one of them. We also had a recent change, too, where the Arizona Supreme Court has now issued an education order.
So this helps divorced parents to be able to communicate with schools a little bit better. Schools were always put in the middle of parenting plans and orders and what one parent can do and what the other can't do. And they're stuck, and they get put in a really difficult position.
So this education order is going to be very helpful for schools and just parents in general so the school knows what to do. That's fantastic.
Michael Gossie
Yeah, so those both have to be very positive changes for your clients.Susan Dana-Kobey
Absolutely. Absolutely. And they're new, and so a lot of people don't know about it. But that education order, I think, is going to be really good.Amy Lindsey
I think it'll have a huge impact on the kids, too, which is really what we want to kind of filter from all of that. That's great. Yeah.Michael Gossie
So, Susan, last time we talked, we were just coming out of the pandemic, and business was booming for you, unfortunately, well, fortunately for you, unfortunately for your clients. Yes. So has business slowed down, or how is your caseload in 2024 going into 2025?Susan Dana-Kobey
It has not slowed down. Like I said, there are more people coming into the state, definitely more cases coming through in all aspects, not just divorces. We have custody issues, child support issues.You know, family law, every case that comes through the door is different. It's absolutely unique. There's not one case that's the same that you can kind of put them through like a mill, right?
Amy Lindsey
Right, right.Susan Dana-Kobey
They're very unique. They're very sensitive topics that involve a lot of people's emotions, and it's financially impactful. You know, it's difficult for families to go to court and litigate.But nevertheless, it's been extremely busy. One area that I have found that there's been an uptick in is prenuptial agreements. I have found that those are coming through the door a lot more than they have in the past for me.
I think that people are getting married later in life. They've built up their own wealth, and they want to be better prepared. They're a little savvier with their finances.
And there's a misconception that, you know, prenuptial is only for the wealthy, right? And that's not true. I think it can help any people from all walks of life.
And like I said, there's people that are getting married in life, so they've already built up that wealth. So it doesn't matter about how much wealth you have, it's how you manage your wealth. And so it's been a lot busier with the prenups.
Michael Gossie
How much easier does, unfortunately, when you have to go through a divorce, how much easier does it make it if you do have that prenuptial agreement in place?Susan Dana-Kobey
Good question, because I was thinking about that as I was driving over here, and the increase of those types of cases are also coming in. And when I get them, they do definitely make it easier. Because you already have an outline of how things are to be divided, and that makes it a lot easier.It's not to say that, you know, if you have a prenup, it won't get litigated, because they come through, they do get litigated sometimes, but they do make it easier for couples or parents to get through the division of assets and debts a lot easier.
Amy Lindsey
No, that's great. Are you seeing an increase in mediation in divorce and custody cases?Susan Dana-Kobey
Yeah, I think mediation is always a goal in any case. I think that you try to work towards reaching a resolution, because litigation is expensive. Going to court and trial is not only expensive, but it's emotionally draining.It's a lot of work. And for me, I try to get parties to get to that point where we can try and reach a compromise, because mediation is a compromise. And not gamble with somebody else taking the reins and making the decision for your life.
So take a shot at mediation, do it. So yeah, mediation's always popular. Like I said, in the court system, you can do private mediation, but the court system and family law has other options, too, for settlement conferences that are more cost-effective for people.
Amy Lindsey
So are there any drawbacks to doing mediation?Susan Dana-Kobey
You know, the only drawback to mediation sometimes, private mediation can be expensive. And if you have a situation where it's black and white, you know it's black and white. And compromising is just not going to be an option, then mediation's not going to work. And that happens sometimes, where it is black and white, and it's just not going to be worth it.Michael Gossie
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Anywhere you can get an adult beverage, they've got you covered. Contact them today at bcattorneys.com, that's bcattorneys.com. So Susan, I've always wondered, you're dealing with clients who are at their most emotionally vulnerable and raw periods of their life.
How do you maintain your composure and not get emotionally invested in some of your cases?
Susan Dana-Kobey
That's hard. The family law, just in its nature, all of the situations that come up in a case are very sensitive, especially when there are children involved. You try to be somewhat of a peacemaker a lot of times when people come to me.They're very conflicted. They're already emotionally driven, angry, or want to take action right away. You try to bring them in a little bit and explain the process, because people come to me with ideas or misconceptions about how it's going to work, simply because they've never been involved or know anybody that's been divorced or haven't even been exposed to it.
And so starting off with explaining the process helps shed some light and brings peace to people right out of the gate. And so I try to have these conversations where explaining what the expectations are, what the strategy will be, and what the end game will be, right out of the gate, I think puts people at ease. And it helps me do my job, which is to take the law and apply it to their unique situation and strategize appropriately and economically.
Michael Gossie
So do you have to be kind of part attorney, part psychiatrist at times?Susan Dana-Kobey
A little bit of both.Amy Lindsey
A little bit of counseling, a little bit of everything else also.Susan Dana-Kobey
Yeah, no, there is a component of that in family law. It's the counseling part of what we do. I mean, we're counselors as well.Amy Lindsey
So you also handle adoptions. What are some of the things that people need to know about trying to adopt in Arizona?Susan Dana-Kobey
So adoption is a great, I love that part of what I do. Absolutely love it. I mean, you go to court and it's a happy moment and it's celebrating and families are there and you get to see families come together.I think one of the things that people don't know is that Maricopa County has a program for non-contested adoptions that doesn't cost anything. You go to the Maricopa County site, get some information, and they have their own council that they assign cases to. And I think a lot of people don't know about that.
And they should really look into it if they're looking into adoption, that's for non-contested adoptions.
Michael Gossie
Oh, that's fantastic. What are some of the basic requirements that you have to have in order to adopt in Arizona?Susan Dana-Kobey
Well, for it to be a non-contested adoption, you need to, parents, the biological parents need to consent or perhaps their rights have already been terminated, whatever their circumstances are. But it's exactly what it is. You don't have any parents or, you know, the state not approving the adoption. Everybody's in agreement. You can move forward. It's procedurally, there are certain steps that you need to take to get through it.Certifications may be required in some instances and not others. Kin adoptions don't typically require certification, but non-related adoptions do.
Amy Lindsey
Yeah, I think there's this belief that adoptions are a very long, extended, expensive process. So you find that there is ways to shorten as well as less expensive options.Susan Dana-Kobey
Yes, yes, especially if they're non-contested. They can move a lot quicker. Certification takes some time, so it may take a little bit longer than a non-contested adoption.But I think the process can be a lot, is a lot faster and efficient than people think.
Michael Gossie
So how long can it take?Susan Dana-Kobey
It can take anywhere, up to a year maybe, to get all the documentation done and processed. It also depends where the child's being adopted from. Foreign adoptions can take longer because it's just more complicated.But I think people that are interested in adoption should certainly not be discouraged because they think it's going to take a long time. Depending on the adoption, the avenue can be a lot shorter. I don't discourage people at all to look into it.
Amy Lindsey
Oh, that's great to hear.Michael Gossie
So Susan, I know that family law isn't the only type of law you practice. Can you talk a little bit about what else you do, at Burch & Cracchiolo?Amy Lindsey
And then also when you sleep in between.Susan Dana-Kobey
Yeah, let's not go there. So yes, I have a civil practice as well. I do construction litigation as well as personal injury. And I also practice civil litigation in California. So yeah, I do. I have a very diverse practice. And I enjoy that. It keeps me on my toes. I started off doing civil litigation. And diving into the family law practice has really changed my practice entirely. I do love it. But I do like being in both environments.Amy Lindsey
Oh, that's great.Michael Gossie
So how did you get into construction litigation?Susan Dana-Kobey
This was when I first got out of law school. I just started working for a firm where that's where I got hired. And that's what we did. And just dove into it. And I still do it. Yeah, I really do it. I enjoy it.Michael Gossie
OK, so last question. What is one change you would like to see in family law in Arizona in 2025 and beyond?Susan Dana-Kobey
Oh, wow. I think that if I spoke early about the efficiency of just the court system, how fantastic they are moving things forward. And I think if we stay on track, that will only get better.Because the family law practice in itself has just evolved so quickly. I think we have more cases coming out of the Court of Appeals that are family law related than any other area of law. And that's just the nature of the beast.
I mean, every case is different. Every strategy is different. I find it really interesting that every time I get a case and you think, OK, let's just go through it.
You check the box. And then there will be one twist in there that will just be something unique, you've never seen before, and requires a lot of processing, research, and strategizing. And so taking that and putting it into practice into the court system and what they're doing to move things forward, I think that if we stay on that track, things can proceed and move quicker for people.
Amy Lindsey
That's great. I love to hear we're doing something well in the court system. It's nice to hear something positive there. So thank you for sharing that.Michael Gossie
Yeah, that's fantastic. Well, thank you so much to Susan Dana-Kobe from Burch & Cracchiolo for being our guest today. Thank you for listening to the AZ Big Podcast with Michael and Amy.For the latest, greatest business, real estate, and lifestyle news, check out the all-new azbigmedia.com. And once again, thank you to our sponsors, Burch & Cracchiolo.
Amy Lindsey
Thank you, Susan.Susan Dana-Kobey
Thank you. Thanks for having me.